Unveiling The Decentralization Spectrum: Insights Into The DWeb Ecosystem And DEPINs

HandyCon 2024 | Day 2 - Unveiling The Decentralization Spectrum - YouTube

(00:03) [Music] [Music] all right nice hello hello hello looks like we uh increasing number count people are excited for this one um all right I'm going to get out of the way everyone's seen enough of me uh we're gonna let Santiago do a lot of h a lot of the talking here um and that's it yes thank you Ms hello everyone thank you for coming having this conversation about the D web ecosystem and the centralized physical networks um I'm going to start by introducing myself and then we'll introduce the panels so um my
(00:58) name is Santiago I am a developer from from Montreal Canada I'm kind of working a bit with the Canadian handshake ecosystem and trying to also get involved with the Argentinian ecosystem so let's start by introducing the panel today um we'll start with with you Stephen hey guys H my name is Stephen Mackey uh I'm the founder of momentum Capital I've been around the handshake Community since I guess before it's like proper Inception um decent personality around used to build a lot more stuff in around closer
(01:35) to the space but got a little bit busy uh with more real life circumstances but I look forward to being with handshake as it kind of enters its next step of maturity yes of course you be know handshake since day one Stephen so we are considered a true OG in the community thank you for joining us once again at at hyon um next um we're joined by Cory Cory hero who is the project leader of and co-founder of maxq so Cory yeah yeah thanks for having me um really amazing just to you know really grow into a handshakes Community
(02:11) you guys have an amazing Community which is just full of energy full of open you know open development open uh you know creativity so I'm just uh grateful to be here amongst ogs and uh want to talk about how we're trying to integrate you know handshake into our ecosystem so it just goes through the window of a browser into the the billions of users in the world so um I'm just glad to uh to help build thatt with everybody thank you we are also happy and excited to have David Wok um from influx Technologies so
(02:46) welcome good afternoon I'm out of Sunny Manitoba today I am the chief business officer for flux I'm getting a lot of feedback here not sure if that's on my um yeah I'm um excited to be here um I'm learning about handshake as I go I've uh we've been working with handshake on a couple projects already ourselves in our decentralized offering uh but yeah I'm happy to be here and happy to talk about web3 and and deep in and all that fun stuff super and then finally we also have Matthew shudy Director of Business
(03:21) Development at Hol chain welcome Matthew thanks Santiago yeah uh I'm calling in from Puerto Rico where I live and uh I do work for holo chain but I'm also here hoping to share a little bit about dweb Camp which is a wonderful gathering in Northern California every year and uh I can more dive into that more in a little bit you bigan big fan of dwib Camp here by the way I think I went to y'all's most one back in like 2021 but yeah love it out there wonderful fantastic thank you Matthew so um this is more than just a conversation
(04:01) uh we know that there are like two World Views colliding right now this idea of centralization decentralization and that broader Calis is just beginning to be felt all around the world today we're going to be talking about the decentralization Spectrum I could not think of a better panel than the panel that we have today um I have prepared some questions for our panel and then H for people who would like to ask questions there is the Q Q&A section on the right hand side please ask your question on at the end of the panel
(04:31) we're going to be doing the Q&A so um I would like to start with you Stephen um ask you today about decentralization in general so could you tell us a bit about your basic framework what is your view about decentralization why is it important and what role does hansik play yeah I guess in the overarching theme of like crypto as a whole right decentralization has been a a kind of a kind of a meme in of itself mostly because a lot of people don't necessarily understand like Network topologies right the difference between
(05:06) a network that's distributed and it's still resilient and one that is Fault tolerant and like wholly like decentralized right so um you know I won't go into a whole just you know this you know discussion on what exactly is decentralization but it's kind of the core understanding is that as far as uh the crypto ecosystem goes you know we first came with decentralized monetary peer-to-peer money systems like with Bitcoin and then what followed was smart Contracting ecosystems like like with ethereum and so once we had the ability
(05:35) to be able to have novel computation and you know scripts and contracts on top of like decentralized money we kind of had two main pillars to like hold up the idea of like what else could be decentralized so you know you had the monetary like subsid of the growth of the ethereum asset the monetary subsid and the growth of the Bitcoin asset which itself is you know very complex codebase and then those both of those assets provided the incentives um for people with the intent to build more decentralized services and protocols on
(06:10) top of additional layers to come in so you know we've seen novel peer-to-peer money systems like lightning being built on the Bitcoin side we've seen in interesting Layer Two optimism rollups nfts all this cool stuff come to ethereum and then after a long enough time of elongated like R&D and and you know money spent on very smart people on nights and weekends there comes a time for you know deeper levels of experimentation so decentralized compute um decentralized like uh um uh messaging um decentralized like governance all
(06:45) these other sort of different aspects where we sort of thought if we can get people and coordinate them together uh without like a a main centralized Authority what else can come from from that in order to build like a more in meshed protocol ecosystem uh and handshake being one of kind of the I guess one of the Main Stays of that with you know decentralized like root Network excuse me uh um root certificate uh and so that allowing you know the additional like permutation of of more and more decentralized like uh Network Services
(07:17) on top of the handr network itself and you know we've got we've got other people that are building dpin stuff it seems that these memes sort of just evolve over time so dein decentralized uh you know public infrastructure before we were calling it The dweb in some instances it's called like web 3 but really it's just an overarching way to kind of understand that there's different protocols that need to be built if we're going to you know more democratize like the internet infrastructure like of the world uh and
(07:49) we're going to need to do it step by step piecewise to figure out which parts are most resilient and which architectures are the most beneficial thank you Stephen um so Stephen gave it like a very general overview of the centralization many topics here and my next question is for for you Matthew so I know you're involved with the webcam and I was wondering if you could tell the audience a bit about what the webcam is what kind of topics are being cover and why are you why do you think decentralization is important sure so
(08:22) dweb Camp has been it started out as a conference um hosted originally at the internet archive the internet archive or the main organizing um support group really uh and then after a couple of iterations as a conference the organizers realized this would be better if we actually get people spending time together not just in conference halls but like camping like literally eating and showering next to each other and sleeping and you know all night etc etc and uh and we've done three or four of those camping uh events now
(09:00) um and they are phenomenal uh it's usually about 500 or so people they currently are held in the woods up in Northern California in mesino County at a place called Camp Navaro um if you go to dweb camp.org you can get to their website this year it's going to be held August 7th through 11th so that should be nice and and warm good time to be in California uh but who goes it's everybody from like brand new folks who are still in high school or maybe even Junior High that are like oh my goodness we've got an idea for a thing to like
(09:36) old crypto hands like Juan Benet from ipfs and filecoin to Tim burner's Lee the inventor of the worldwide web to Vince surf the co-author of tcpip literally like the father of the internet right so you have this incredible mix of people from Junior High to the ogs of the internet come together and hang out and anybody who's participating can apply to speak and present and in addition there's a fair bit of on the-fly emerging events that happen where people go hey I want to host a session on this or we want to
(10:18) play Frisbee tag or whatever um and you have people from North America Europe South America Africa the Middle East South Asia East Asia austral Asia the whole world of people that are interested in various aspects of decentralization peer-to-peer but most importantly ways in which technology can Empower individuals and communities to hopefully help us solve our our biggest most challenging problems all those folks come together for you know a brief five or so days in the woods of Northern California so that's that's my my Quick
(10:58) Pitch sounds good thank you Matthew one of the important pillars of decentralization I think is this idea of data ownership and privacy so this next question goes for CI H CI could you tell us about why was important for mask to adopt handshake and why is privacy important yeah definitely I mean um someone I think it was a16z put uh put or whoever created the web 3 sort of slogan like read write and own right so Web Two we coming from this read and right um data siloed everywhere it's harvested it's monetized it's tracked
(11:34) you know you along that way you lose a lot of privacy of of being a user online we're now we're moving into this web three I mean Stephen um put a very good description of how we've evolved through decentralization of technology in blockchain and now we see that we've got these pillars of web 3 we've got D Storage with ipfs we've got daging um I see web uh web 4 which is what one of the the guys said in the other I forget his name because there's so many great speakers but you know how
(12:03) handshake lives in this web four which is like more decentralized from The Gatekeepers we have now where handshake operates as a protocol controlled name service you know where where websites are in its own root domain that is not controlled by people right it's controlled by technology so to get that all to piece together in a private experience that respects the user we have to have that through what most people use now in some ways as a browser that's the window to the world so you've got these pillars of decentralization
(12:34) these pillars of dweb which is stuff like I said storage dorage D messaging um that dweb whole framework has to operate in a way where users can interact with it and not just devs building for devs or protocols building a a tool stack yes that's important but the there has to be a product for the users right because everyone we're all super love the tech but there's people that just want to use it and they don't really care how it's made they just want to hop in that Lambo and go as fast as
(13:04) they can they don't care about the engineering inside the engine and all the stuff that's gone into that the millions and millions of dollars and hours of research and R&D and experimenting they just want to use the cool stuff so what we tried to put together at mask U which I'll talk about later in our session is um yeah just we how we've curated that experience how we've tried to um Foster that ethos that we believe we have in our Vision that is so so loud and proud and alive at handshake is that you need that
(13:35) centralization as a base and build that up you know from the protocol up and curate that experience so users can come in use it enjoy it um interact with it build on it um and that's what we've tried to do but keeping privacy by default right so when you hop in you know it's not leaking your information anywhere online there's no monetization of your data for ads there's no G Keepers that are trying to track you and and then make a buck you know it's like if you really read write and own your
(14:05) data that means you got to read write and own your personal information and privacy that's kind of goes hand inand with that so I think we kind of in that way we've curated the experience to give that value or preserve that value back into what the users are doing keep it with them and of course if you interact with something and you want to share something whether it's a message whether it's a sign up for an account and you as a user choose to move that information somewhere else that you can retain as
(14:33) much value as you can um in that whole decentralized Space so you know we hope to keep building that and um we've in our goal is to integrate handshake as deeply as we can into the browser so everyone and anyone in everywhere can use the technology and and use that uh handshake protocol So yeah thank you so much um I think one of important aspect besides privacy is this idea that that the network needs to be scalable and this also this huge topic of being interoperable right so this question goes for Davey um so flask is the
(15:12) largest fully decentralized cloud computing Network and as offerings continue to grow do you foresee scalability in the future how do you see that like do you see technology continue to depend on Legacy infrastructure or how do you see um displaying out as techology continues to evolve well I think it's um it's it's good to take a step back here actually I love what Corey is saying I love what Stephen said um there's a lot of things that web 3 is and infrastructure is a big play in that scalability is definitely a big play in
(15:45) that as well um I actually had a a big meeting with a old web one provider um the guys who originally created uh Linux for Enterprises back in the day with novel and and later on Susi and I got the biggest compliment for flux that I ever could get and the compliments compliment was as follows basically was everybody's moving away from their data centers that are local or even on Prem and every company they're all moving to the big ass data centers start from a language uh but basically if you think about it
(16:21) an Amazon and Google they're basically just really just large large large facilities very centralized and he's like you guys actually build an actual Cloud solution not the massive data center solution and that's what we're going for we're literally trying to have internet 2.
(16:41) 0 created where basically we go back to the roots of the internet where you literally have peerto peer traffic peer-to-peer communication peer-to-peer websites all of that fun and how do we do that we literally have it all tied to the blockchain so we are a proof of work chain and and the way we operate is is everybody can participate you have a raspberry piloting around you can hook it up to the network and you can be a provider for for websites or for apis or or even a game server if if it's not too hard that's the that's the
(17:10) scalability we go from the raspberry pies an older computer that you have at home and we go all the way to the data centers that people are leaving at this point and why are we doing that because that's actually the strength of the internet that basically creates an actual decentralized platform that cannot be taken down with one data center going down that's just if you think about it the internet at this point is getting so centralized so dependent on these big three that it's become very scary that it doesn't take
(17:39) much to take away half your country and and take and Rob them from their their their their news their their their entertainment their way to operate even shop um order food see a doctor at this point because all of that goes through these Big Data Centers we had a perfect example last last week with Amazon struggling Facebook goes down hospitals were unavailable that's scary um I'm not saying that we're the one and true solution here I'm actually even advocating for an integration between web two and web 3 um I think that's how
(18:16) we scale it's not just being dependent on the big ones but everybody providing their own compute power whenever they can that guarantees us a true decentralized platform TI that in with projects like what Cory's working on what Steven working on what Matthew is preaching with camping and and and bringing people together that way that's literally what we're trying to perform here is that we make it easy usable inexpensive for everybody to utilize if you have an idea you want to put it on a website just drop it up hey what was I
(18:52) think my my son hosted something for a few flux for an entire year that's $2 um I don't think you can find that anywhere else but I I do hear um there's a big concern with web3 and the big concern that we're all trying to face and and Corey actually touched on it as well is usability being able to use it easily um I'll quote Dan who normally does these type of things but Dan always says like if I go to an ATM or my wife goes to the ATM she plops in the credit card does her thing gets her money walks out
(19:28) she doesn't care what happened in the background she doesn't care all the handshaking all the the transfers that had to happen the the software the the hardware all involved they don't care they just want it easy fux has done that now as well we made it easy credit card all that fun stuff you don't need to go purchase flux to do your thing it still settles for flux on the Chain but we took care of that backend and I love to see how we can utilize handshake in that way as well we've uh We've experimented with it as
(19:56) well a couple times um where we try and create the things uh offer websites via handshake DNS yeah it's pretty cool the way it all operates at this point and I think that's going to be the strength going forward having the option to have people run type of internet not just a corporate one that's a great one dve um people talk about like applications as where do we see applications of decentralized Technologies I think one one great example that I found is uh Dex GD which is a platform for both trapping
(20:31) and managing Community micr grids Energy Management to create distributed marketplaces for clean energy and this company does distributed green energy resources in Puerto Rico and this question goes for for Stephen um I found this to be a good application that is uh implementing decentralized principles and Technologies for the energy sector how do you see uh applications such as this one in the energy sector benefit communities with affordable and sustainable electricity as an application of of decentralization yeah um those Dex guys
(21:12) Dex grid guys have been on working on that for quite a few years so you know I constantly get the updates and talk to the founders there in like Puerto Rico and what I found is even when you have like a novel idea like decentralized micro grids or the incentivization of that um because Dex grid itself doesn't necessarily use any crypto payments or anything in it anywhere um not as of yet um but the general idea for Dex grid was you know if if how do you incentivize clean energy like micro grids if one of
(21:44) the main issues is the cost of the infrastructure like necessary so in in this case um you know hydro hydro hydroelectric power um wind uh solar in this case in the island of Puerto Rico mostly solar and so effect L you have you know a lot of wealthier individuals that are on Puerto Rico that are more resilient against you know hurricanes you know the natural disasters because they have you know backup power generators um solar systems Etc um but there is no way to effectively get the rest of that excess energy uh onto the
(22:18) grid to other individuals in times of emergencies unless you have a direct partnership with the individuals that maintain that infrastructure so you know you're not not just going to go to you know utility company and say hey we're building a protocol if you guys work with us we can help you like you know enable more micro grids on the island first thing you would need to do is you would need to con you would need to incentivize the individuals that already have that energy and give them some basic infrastructure that basically
(22:50) gives you leverage to go to the utility companies and say hey we've already done steps one and two uh you know if we can get you guys to like tap into here and help us and we can provide more critical infrastructure to like you know the rest of the island in like in the time of emergencies and the idea is that over time if more of these types of Concepts proliferated not at least in that island and and and a lot of the things sometimes that we invest into are very very early stage like ideas that sometimes can Verge on into being an
(23:19) experiment um but you know that's just kind of the nature of like taking risks so you know it's it's really a matter of uh learning ways to use decentralization um Financial incentives to create leverage so that those that provide additional utility and infrastructure have a reason to look at us great example is something like Bitcoin as a peer-to-peer you know money transfer system it grew to be as mature as it was wasn't going anywhere exchanges popped up whole new you know mining Hardware ecosystem popped up
(23:50) behind it um you know it proved this resiliency time and time again to the point that now we have ETFs so you know basically it's like if the whole con if you build it like they will come um but if you build it and you provide them incentives to also come as like kind of like a trail of bread then hopefully you can get people to if you if not just looking at your protocol and and and using it or at least going to back to the drawing book and saying how can we change or leverage the infrastructure that we already have or how can we take
(24:20) advantage of these new technologies uh in order to you know blend them and upgrade ourselves for like the 21st century uh and so they're right ways to do that wrong ways to do that you have to dig into like the Legacy aspect of whatever that existing like ecosystem is there's always some regulatory reason why certain things haven't been tried before uh and so like anything in crypto you you've got to come to these things with a lot of patience uh and the expectation to be proven wrong sometimes
(24:46) which is like totally okay um but when it comes to something like you know people's you know resilience in time of emergencies and being sort of like life-saving like circumstances um then it's it's even more important for us to do these types of things um not just with money not just with smart contracts and you know that type of stuff like when when we start blending things into the real world there's a lot more real world consequences outside of building like you know mining dating mining D data
(25:12) centers excuse me so um they have to be taken with a a lot more patience than usual uh and usually it requires or what I I have seen an older founder older developers of those things that have like been in the the world existing as adults and realize that laws rules and the rule of law and regulation exists for a reason and it's best to like work in tandem with those Regulators as opposed to like working in opposition of them thank you Stephen and Matthew I would love to hear your thoughts on this like how is the webcam um sort of
(25:48) teaching people about decentralization the benefits of this I mean this idea of distributed benefits mutual respect transparency and technology for human agency so could you tell us more about how do you see these being applied in in in communities sure I mean well first off I live in Puerto Rico uh Stephen was bang on about about his assessment of what's going on here it's pretty regular that we we actually do have power outages even when there's not a storm right the grid is pretty fragile uh and yeah
(26:21) people who are wealthier they get solar and they get Battery Systems and folks who are not they don't so when the grid goes down or portions of the grid go down only the people who are wealthiest uh are able to to actually have power and refrigeration and you know all the other things that we we kind of need to to make things work um at dweb Camp there's not a lot of teaching going on it's mostly co-exploration so you do have people who come and share what they're up to but a lot of what's
(26:54) happening there is people cross-pollinating connecting right a little bit like the speakers are getting to do here and like some of the people who are in the audience are getting to do in some of the networking sessions Etc right um but there's a lot of co-learning I'll I'll share from from the the day job uh side of things I work on a project called Holo chain sounds like a blockchain not a blockchain it's a framework for building fully peer-to-peer applications there is no one big Holo chain there's no mining there's no
(27:26) staking if you build a Holo chain and run it with your friends or family or business we might not ever even know that it exists right it's just a way to be able to run an application set a a a a set of rules maybe membranes who's allowed to join that kind of things what is the game we're playing are we playing chess or we playing Twitter or we playing something like Airbnb right and enable that Community actually run that together right um and for us the the Vision the goal there wasn't just about
(28:02) ownership and it wasn't just about privacy though those things are important to us as well but it was really about evolutionary capacity that we believe it's really critical that people be able to go hey I want to try this and not have to have it make sense for somebody else's business model in order for them to be able to communicate in that way right we don't have a business model ourselves for holo chain there's no Revenue stream there but similar to Davey and what they're doing with flux we set up a separate business
(28:36) offering that itself makes use of Holo chain called Holo host and we released an erc20 token and we raised millions of dollars and now it's you know $700 million market cap or whatever right and that is decentralized physical infrastructure it's web hosting peer-to-peer right what we're looking at now we're we're planning to launch in the next few months right we've promised we'll be launching by the end of June but that's been seven years in the in the works right like distributed systems are hard
(29:08) Davey will tell you Steve will tell you K will tell you like this stuff is not easy distributed much harder than centralized systems but when you get it right there's potential magic there and for us we're really trying to make a change in the world and we're also looking for the opportunities to partner with others who are trying to do so as well so at the moment we're really interested in talking to other dpin project projects other decentralized physical infrastructure projects where there might be benefits for
(29:37) collaboration we're also really interested in talking to folks like people in the in in this community who are really interested in name spaces whether those are Global or non-global name spaces would love to chat with folks about that so I'll share my email address in the chat if there's anybody who wants to talk about any of those things feel free to ping me and we can get yeah sounds good thank you um my next question goes for Corey um I'm curious to hear your view on the implementation and accessibility of
(30:08) these Technologies to the general public we know mask recently integrated handshake what is your vision on borderless browsing yeah no borderless browsing is is really one of our key messages um from mask where the idea and the vision is that anyone and everyone in the world can access the same pretty much the same information that anyone else living in a different place can can access so you know you can't have de centralization where one part of the world can access all of it permissionless and the other half of the
(30:41) world has Gatekeepers has censorship has you know authoritative regimes who are oppressing the average person in their country and that exists so much in the world uh it has fragmented a lot of things including Innovation adoption and uh you know all of us who've been in many cycles you know we kind of joke oh India's banned crypto again guys oh China's banned crypto again guys you know like it's just the cycle of of you know kind of like trying to pressurize adoption and see how much control can
(31:16) still be done right so our vision for you know adopting um sorry our vision for user adoption has to start with making things simple and the biggest part of The Mask browser is that we want it to be open to everybody so anyone and everyone can download the browser we're going to we host uh all our versions on ipfs as well so really no matter where you live you can download it um you can use it and it's it's largely permissionless uh but but what's hidden behind the scenes is within the browser
(31:49) it does kind of operate I feel like we're step into uh we're step in web 3 and we're step in sort of the deepen area where the browser will act as a node on the Network as well so if you want to serve the network you're sharing your bandwidth with others and in that borderless browsing sense you're sharing your freedom because you know there's not well we joke around Freedom quote unquote right there's always degrees of freedom but in a lot of the western world there's not a lot of restriction
(32:15) online you can go to various sites you can go to Google YouTube Facebook meta whatever they call it now uh everything you know relatively unrestricted and then you've got countries where they they don't have access to any of that uh you know you've got massive countries like Russia they've banned Twitter and and it's people have to use VPN as a way of life now users can be part of the network and give back that freedom to others and there's an incentive model there you know Stephen and Davey both
(32:44) said it very well you need incentives in a protocol for users to go there and providers to go there and build that infrastructure um so all those are pieces of mask and uh you know we feel like you know that vision is so strong that that it it almost promotes itself everyone wants to be part of something great everyone wants to you know moralistically most people want to give as well as receive so if you have that built right the users will come um it's that trail of breadcrumbs you know that Stephen said really well and uh we hope
(33:16) that you know putting it in the form of a browser like we have that delivers that borderless browsing will just let the next million users you know come into the space and without knowing a lot of technical things be able to contribute to those protocols and of course handshake you know to end off with where that sits you know the more people that adopt and use handshake as a naming space a naming service the more the technology can grow the more the protocol can grow it's it it a big thing is about the domain Marketplace which is
(33:49) amazing that people can control it it's censorship resistant which is the key to all of us but at the same time users need to to be able to use it so we hope that having that front and center in the browser where it's native means that everyone can use it and so that's why this partnership is so important for us um so yeah thank you um Corey so dve Corey just mentioned one of the biggest points maybe that we hear in the media today this idea of content restriction censorship resistant Technologies um we we know flux recently
(34:24) announced the launching of Wordpress on the flux platform could you tell us why this is important do you really think this is the future of Journalism is that a question San Diego you're in Canada right um we I'm not gonna go political here but but um I see things happening here even in in in a western country where I thought that Canada was one of the most liberal countries out there um it's scaring the way we see things evolve at the moment uh um so I'm happy that I see not just flux creating uh platforms for hosting um
(35:05) that by itself by the way is decentralization right having other folks create similar type of offerings um but yes WordPress helps with that WordPress uh is is an easy to use website builder um made a ton of plugins love them or hate them um they they can do some fun stuff to your sites U but yes FL flux has a fully decentralized version of Wordpress so we literally took a 20-year-old software that is built to run on a single server maybe two if you put your database on a separate server but that was kind of the
(35:43) intention easy to set up and get going so we we created it now or recreated it a little bit it's still the original WordPress it's still you can update to Wordpress all that fun stuff all the plugins but we made it uh so that it's decentralized how does that work well basically your noes because every instance of an application on flux has three instances so even if let's say something happens on the west coast your note goes down there well there's two other ones running ready to go and and
(36:15) and keep your website online that's also important to understand that if a government wherever you're hosting your WordPress wants to start attacking your site or even blocks you from uh running it um it just moves around they can't stop it that's the beauty of it um it just transitions around the blockchain will notify another note hey I'm supposed to have three notes running here uh one went down let's spin up another one and it's actually a little overzealous because it actually will spawn two or
(36:47) three extra notes just to make sure nothing bad's happening uh because we don't know what's going on right somebody might just lose power somebody might just lose Internet or somebody might literally actively try and and block somebody from accessing a website um that's important that we nurture that uh behavior that goes for WordPress but that goes for any other application even your game servers that you run on the on the network they will move around if people do nefarious things towards it or
(37:18) have bad intentions or just a government trying to block something um and yeah it is it is very important to to have that um I do want to touch on a couple other things because there's a really good conversations here and we're not really conversation it's it's a very mon uh very monotone conversation here but I love what Stephen was saying about the the micro grids I'm actually getting the same requests from folks to to help build out flux in a similar rate I know for for sure that somebody out there
(37:48) already because he showed me he has a small iio uh little box um that's running on 12 volts running a cumula server for instance to Starling so he's completely off the grid with this machine so that's a note that's completely decentralized running on solar power um that that to me is is awesome um and I want to see more of that I know I have one of my guys who's working very actively with the African Community as well where it is still in its infant stages especially outside of the cities um so we're working there as
(38:23) well to see if we can help there um I have folks who are coming with ideas of negative car carbon um compute power so where basically anything electricity used gets turned into a useful product um I'm not going to disclose because it's a patent and I don't want to uh stump on on their ideas uh but it's it's cool to see that people are really trying to find ideas that said I'm the older guy here unfortunately um I come out of the web 1 web 2 world uh my background is medical it and I know all
(38:57) the h Hoops people have to jump through to get their ideas alive and Stephen is not wrong and that's that's the balance that we all try to find here it's fun to innovate it's fun to create it's fun to make very awesome ideas happen but if the mainstream world is not ready for it you're not going to get that adoption so that's the balance that everybody's on this panel is also fighting is how do we make it go to the next level without scaring everybody away from it and I think uh that's what we're all trying to
(39:33) do here and that's that's literally going to drive web three it's taking a step back sometimes realize that we've gone a little too far let's take a step back get the folks on board and then move forward that's going to be the the way forward in my book Stephen any response um you know I agree with the points that everyone else is uh you know making here I I will I will kind of lean on um something what someone said in the chat though which kind of like really really kind of bodess well with this
(40:02) whole like idea and concept which is just like when you deal with decentralized technologies that many different modular moving Parts especially to like you know Aid in their actual decentralization like for handshake perfect example you have to understand DNS you have to understand you know the root certificate authorities you have to understand um blockchains themselves you have to understand those incentives there then the name auction system then there there's so many different moving pieces that you might spend a weekend or nights
(40:30) and weekends immediately you get it because okay you you were there for Bitcoin you were there for ethereum but it's still going to take a quite a long time and this is something I had to unfortunately accept this was part of my thing kind of like growing up too from like that young mid 20s idealism of we can fix everything the adults are just slow to I hit my 30s and I'm just like oh okay there's a rhyme and a reason for why these things are slow humans are humans you know they take they take time
(40:59) to like digest information build trust in themselves and in their understanding of the technologies that you know they're trying to adopt and that's just the nature of the business you can provide incentives um you know air drops you know cool unique opportunities you know we got oh we got a soft Fork we've got the happening coming all these new names like that's great but still it's going to take time for people to grock these things and you know I've had similar situations even just earlier
(41:24) this morning half of like like growing up into is growing and learning to like trust and accept that the knowledge that you are ingesting comes from a reliable source and the Integrity that you've built in yourself in that understanding can can withstand like you know people coming and challenging your ideas well why is handshake actually good for this what makes it any different than ancoin what makes it any different than ens if you don't have a deep understanding in Technologies and you kind of like gone
(41:51) down the rabbit holes and you can't make those rebuttal you're going to start to question yourself and so until you can until you can you know work up against the uh you know friction of someone questioning your understanding it's going to take time for you to feel comfortable and adopting something which is what happened with Regulators with Bitcoin right if you understood Bitcoin really early you were like oh this is going nowhere we're just GNA sit on our hands hold and you know we're just we're
(42:16) gonna we're gonna make bank and then year after year after year cycle after cycle we were proven right again until eventually we got an ETF like it took time for The Regulators to say there's only so much we can do we either play along we play along in this game or we get like we get left behind and sometimes that's like the last thing that pushes you over that you know kind of like you know adoption curve from like the early majority and into like kind of getting to you know like main mainstream adoption is the the surrender
(42:43) that you might not completely understand this technology but enough people do that now you have to trust their decision making which kind of comes with the whole idea of a you know Common democracy right like you hope that the mo the good majority of people people are acting in their best interest even if you don't fully understand the implications as to why we're making these rules so so yeah so crypto as crypto's grown up I've grown up and I've come to accept that certain things take time thank you you hear that absolutely
(43:14) I I I've I've I've been a a specialist on on medical it myself many times and and the amount of times I had to convince board and presidents and and from hospitals to say hey this is the way forward this is the best idea and then you go like no no no no we're going to do it that way I I gave an entire Spiel why this was the best idea and why that one is not good I gave you examples after examples and still it it it's not just crypto it's that's that's that's just human nature I think uh it happens in
(43:43) the regular day it business as well and I'm sure with other types of uh decision makings I've learned to listen um myself at one point uh and if if you have a specialist or somebody who is an expert on something tend to listen they they often know what they're talking about um yeah and and I'll just add to that I I really appreciate both Davey and cowry in terms of their strategy of how to bring about change right cowry going to where people already are building browsers that actually can support build
(44:19) a bridge to the new world don't ask everybody to cross some big Chasm like build the bridge and Davey hey people know WordPress they know how to use it they like it sweet getting that on on a decentralized infrastructure huge win right um for for us that was really what Holo host was about we're building crazy new weird crypto Tech peer-to-peer apps but if you build your like peer-to-peer version of Airbnb you don't want only early geeky cryptotech adopters to be able to book a room right you want anybody to be able to B book a
(44:54) room so the real reason that we launched Holo host wasn't just hey this will help us fund the larger ecosystem it was also oh this builds a bridge to the existing world of regular people who are used to using web apps and traditional mobile apps right they don't have to have any idea like somebody was saying earlier about ATMs they don't have to have any idea what's happening on the back end if there's peer-to-peer stuff or an incentiv incentivization structure for host nope that's all invisible they got
(45:22) to book a room that was What mattered so yes fully on board with both the simplifying but also the meet people where they're at right that will help them migrate to a to a new different hopefully better future I agree sounds good we're gonna close with you Cur before FL is yours oh wow um I love being in these panels I feel like you know sometimes when you're around lots of people smarter than you you just you come out of this feeling like you know you've learned and and you're growing through
(45:55) the experience um but I feel like what what's super super cool about just me really jumping into the handshake Community is stuff like this these conferences where everyone can mingle with with like-minded people creating amazing things but all have a very shared you know um truly you know charitable vision for what it should look like in the future being decentralized being interoperable being where you know anyone can build anything you know and and use all the tooling there and have it open permissionless
(46:27) for everybody um so I think you know just looking at the power of the stuff being built the people here um looking at all these great ideas and then the human element of of collaborating with with other like-minded people I mean the future has never been brighter but you know as as as some of the people said you know as you grow you realize there's a lot of things in the world that can be solved um in different ways and uh we just got to find our way to do it so you know really looking forward to chatting
(46:55) with a lot of you after this session and and contacting and and touching base so um love chatting with you guys thank you for for letting me close today um and yeah really looking forward to all the other speakers and events today thanks so much you guys have done an amazing job with producing this event I'm very impressed with pretty much everything so thanks again to everybody thank you [Music] everyone